Thread: What opera have you been watching lately?

          
   
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    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Soave_Fanciulla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemorino View Post
    Okay, here's my sacrilegious idea to "improve" Don Carlo in performance. It looks like everybody does 2 intermissions around the truncated Act 3. There's nothing I hate more than having to take a 2nd intermission after a short act. I would take the 1st intermission after Act 2, Scene 1. Have the audience leave on the rousing high of the Oath Duet, and bring them back in with the Veil Song. Also: then it would feel like some time has passed before Rodrigo starts to betray Carlo. A
    Great idea. It would work much better!

    Also, what is Rodrigo up to? Does he think he will get further with his Flanders obsession if he gets the king on his side? Has he realised that Carlo(s) is a lost cause in the "strong political leader" stakes?
    Natalie

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    Opera Lively News Coordinator Top Contributor Member MAuer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemorino View Post
    Attachment 10677

    Consider me initiated into the Don Carlo/Don Carlos Version Frustration Club. Would it have killed anybody to sit through about 10 more minutes to get the opening crowd scene? Or is there no Italian version of that scene? It felt very "Let's pick it up from bar 120" to me. Other than that, I really liked the production and the performance.

    Okay, here's my sacrilegious idea to "improve" Don Carlo in performance. It looks like everybody does 2 intermissions around the truncated Act 3. There's nothing I hate more than having to take a 2nd intermission after a short act. I would take the 1st intermission after Act 2, Scene 1. Have the audience leave on the rousing high of the Oath Duet, and bring them back in with the Veil Song. Also: then it would feel like some time has passed before Rodrigo starts to betray Carlo. Anyway...... It's a great opera with a lot of great characters, but you already knew that.
    I think the performance from the Salzburg Festival with Harteros, Kaufmann, and Hampson in the leads does have the complete crowd scene at the beginning of the Fontainebleau act. We see the wretched, starving people shivering in the cold winter forest before Elisabeth arrives and tries to comfort them. It certainly explains why she later gives in to their pleas and agrees to marry Philip, though she and Carlo have fallen in love.

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    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAuer View Post
    I think the performance from the Salzburg Festival with Harteros, Kaufmann, and Hampson in the leads does have the complete crowd scene at the beginning of the Fontainebleau act. We see the wretched, starving people shivering in the cold winter forest before Elisabeth arrives and tries to comfort them. It certainly explains why she later gives in to their pleas and agrees to marry Philip, though she and Carlo have fallen in love.
    The old Met performance--still available on DVD--with Domingo, Freni, and Ghiaurov also opens with the lamenting crowd. That version still holds up pretty well; it's the one that first introduced me to Don Carlo and made the opera one of my favorites.

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    Senior Member Involved Member Nemorino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soave_Fanciulla View Post
    Great idea. It would work much better!

    Also, what is Rodrigo up to? Does he think he will get further with his Flanders obsession if he gets the king on his side? Has he realised that Carlo(s) is a lost cause in the "strong political leader" stakes?
    It's funny, in a recent interview on Paris Opera's youtube channel Ludovic Tezier said he sees him as an Iago with benevolent intentions. But I kind of think he's just naive & reactionary. He's not thinking more than 1 move ahead in chess terms. Maybe a good production will at some point convince me of the opposite. He manipulates his friend, but he tells himself it's okay because it's for a good cause, but he doesn't seem to think through the consequences.

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    Junior Member Recent member leonora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soave_Fanciulla View Post
    Great idea. It would work much better!

    Also, what is Rodrigo up to? Does he think he will get further with his Flanders obsession if he gets the king on his side? Has he realised that Carlo(s) is a lost cause in the "strong political leader" stakes?
    Well, yes.......but it's a lot more complicated than that. it helps if you're familiar with Schiller's play......and this might help. I had better declare an interest,.....I wrote this!! It was part of a project to publish a volume of essays discussing Verdi's source material, but the editor seems to have vanished off the face of the earth......
    I would like to know what people think!!
    https://www.academia.edu/1578705/Ver...r_1_DON_CARLOS

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    Junior Member Recent member leonora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemorino View Post
    It's funny, in a recent interview on Paris Opera's youtube channel Ludovic Tezier said he sees him as an Iago with benevolent intentions. But I kind of think he's just naive & reactionary. He's not thinking more than 1 move ahead in chess terms. Maybe a good production will at some point convince me of the opposite. He manipulates his friend, but he tells himself it's okay because it's for a good cause, but he doesn't seem to think through the consequences.

    About right.....I sent a link to a paper I wrote about this, if you read German you might like also to look at Schiller's BRIEFE UEBER DON CARLOS (link here) http://www.friedrich-schiller-archiv...er-don-carlos/

    in which he discusses in considerable detail how the character of Posa developed until he became the central figure (Schiller does actually refer to him as 'Der Held dieses Stueckes' (The hero of this play). And Schiller definitely saw him as morally ambiguous. That;s what makes him so interesting.

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  10. #1807
    Junior Member Recent member leonora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemorino View Post
    It's funny, in a recent interview on Paris Opera's youtube channel Ludovic Tezier said he sees him as an Iago with benevolent intentions. But I kind of think he's just naive & reactionary. He's not thinking more than 1 move ahead in chess terms. Maybe a good production will at some point convince me of the opposite. He manipulates his friend, but he tells himself it's okay because it's for a good cause, but he doesn't seem to think through the consequences.

    BTW, I was able to watch the Paris production on ARTE, and I thought the staging was very effective....perhaps not perfect, but then what production of anything ever is? It was pared down and unfussy, and enabled the audience to focus on the complicated relationships between the characters. All the singers were wonderful, I thought.....this is one of the best versions of DON CARLOS I have seen.

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    Opera Lively Media Consultant Top Contributor Member Ann Lander (sospiro)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonora View Post
    BTW, I was able to watch the Paris production on ARTE, and I thought the staging was very effective....perhaps not perfect, but then what production of anything ever is? It was pared down and unfussy, and enabled the audience to focus on the complicated relationships between the characters. All the singers were wonderful, I thought.....this is one of the best versions of DON CARLOS I have seen.
    As a huge Verdi fan I watched it and enjoyed it but I still prefer the Italian version.
    "The world calls them its singers and poets and artists and storytellers; but they are just people who have never forgotten the way to fairyland."
    Lucy Maud Montgomery

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    Junior Member Recent member leonora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ann Lander (sospiro) View Post
    As a huge Verdi fan I watched it and enjoyed it but I still prefer the Italian version.
    The Italian version is the one we all 'grew up with', as it were.......but now I much prefer the French version.

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    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Soave_Fanciulla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonora View Post
    The Italian version is the one we all 'grew up with', as it were.......but now I much prefer the French version.
    I grew up with this, came to the Italian version later, and have now realized it is NOT the original French version but the French version of the Italian version, expanded a bit!

    Natalie

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    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Soave_Fanciulla's Avatar
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    Natalie

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    Opera Lively Media Consultant Top Contributor Member Ann Lander (sospiro)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soave_Fanciulla View Post
    I grew up with this, came to the Italian version later, and have now realized it is NOT the original French version but the French version of the Italian version, expanded a bit!

    That's the one I had (sold it). Can you recommend an original French version?
    "The world calls them its singers and poets and artists and storytellers; but they are just people who have never forgotten the way to fairyland."
    Lucy Maud Montgomery

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    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Soave_Fanciulla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ann Lander (sospiro) View Post
    That's the one I had (sold it). Can you recommend an original French version?
    I just looked up this one but I am gasping a bit at the price!

    Verdi: Don Carlos (Five-act French version)
    Joseph Rouleau (Philippe II), André Turp (Don Carlos), Robert Savoie (Rodrigue), Edith Tremblay (Elizabeth de Valois), Michelle Vilma (La Princesse Eboli), Gillian Knight (Thibault), Richard Van Allan (Le Grand Inquisiteur), Emile Belcourt (Le Compte de Lerme), Geoffrey Shovelton (Un Hérault Royal),...

    Natalie

  21. #1814
    Opera Lively Media Consultant Top Contributor Member Ann Lander (sospiro)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soave_Fanciulla View Post
    I just looked up this one but I am gasping a bit at the price!

    Verdi: Don Carlos (Five-act French version)
    Joseph Rouleau (Philippe II), André Turp (Don Carlos), Robert Savoie (Rodrigue), Edith Tremblay (Elizabeth de Valois), Michelle Vilma (La Princesse Eboli), Gillian Knight (Thibault), Richard Van Allan (Le Grand Inquisiteur), Emile Belcourt (Le Compte de Lerme), Geoffrey Shovelton (Un Hérault Royal),...

    Thank you.

    I so want this. Amazon.uk have it for £38 and I'm very tempted.
    "The world calls them its singers and poets and artists and storytellers; but they are just people who have never forgotten the way to fairyland."
    Lucy Maud Montgomery

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    Opera Lively News Coordinator Top Contributor Member MAuer's Avatar
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    Or we can hope that a video of the recent Paris production is released commercially.

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