Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 93

Thread: Absolute masterpieces by country - voting thread (closed)

          
   
    Bookmark and Share
  1. #16
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    9,305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGerald View Post
    My reservation about this thread (which will be both interesting and educational to follow) lies in the definition of "Masterpiece". Since operatic tastes are subjective, I am sure that my definition of the term would involve a much different list than many of the operas Luiz has listed. For example, the Italian section would include more Bel Canto works, and the German section very few. That's the joy of it really: there is something for every taste, and on this site, at least, no one gets flamed for having different preferences than do others.
    Exactly, that's why I asked for endorsements and for challenges, since people's definition of a masterpiece and preferences will differ, so to get to a final collective list, we'd have to include those that do get the agreement of some members and are not challenged out by some others. Clarifying, agreeing with, and reaffirming what JohnGerald said, disagreeing about whether or not an opera is a masterpiece is a matter for fun debate, not a matter for flaming. As usual, on Opera Lively we respect each others' opinions, and when we disagree, we respectfully do so.
    Last edited by Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva); April 26th, 2015 at 04:13 PM.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  2. #17
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    9,305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Interesting. So far, Italy is not faring very well in the matter of endorsements. France, Austria, and Germany are doing fine.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  3. #18
    Senior Member Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Bloomfield Hills, MI
    Posts
    843
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva) View Post
    Well, that's why I asked for endorsements and for challenges, since people's definition of a masterpiece and preferences will differ, so to get to a final collective list, we'd have to include those that do get the agreement of some members and are not challenged out by some others. Disagreeing about whether or not an opera is a masterpiece is a matter for fun debate, not a matter of flaming. As usual, on Opera Lively we respect each others' opinions, and when we disagree, we respectfully do so.
    OK, then. A list of Operatic Masterpieces here would include the Donizetti Tudor Queen trilogy (Anna Bolena, Maria Stuarda and Roberto Devereaux -- like the Ring with more melody and less brass), Guillaume Tell (which has gobsmacked me, despite the staging), La Favorite and Ernani. the latter due to energetic melody and compact structure.

  4. #19
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    9,305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGerald View Post
    OK, then. A list of Operatic Masterpieces here would include the Donizetti Tudor Queen trilogy (Anna Bolena, Maria Stuarda and Roberto Devereaux -- like the Ring with more melody and less brass), Guillaume Tell (which has gobsmacked me, despite the staging), La Favorite and Ernani. the latter due to energetic melody and compact structure.
    I rephrased what I said since I was actually agreeing with you but the way I initially phrased it, it appeared like a disagreement.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  5. #20
    Senior Member Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Bloomfield Hills, MI
    Posts
    843
    Post Thanks / Like
    In most matters, disagreement is what folks frequently do. It is when they do so disagreeably that things get intense. Disagreement can be educational, I think.

  6. Likes Clayton, Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva) liked this post
  7. #21
    Senior Member Top Contributor Member Clayton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Berkhamsted, UK
    Posts
    4,260
    Post Thanks / Like
    for Germany

    I endorse

    Die Tote Stadt
    Lohengrin
    Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg
    Parsifal

    and also think as a masterpiece

    Orpheus (Telemann)
    Siroe (Hasse)
    Croesus

  8. #22
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    9,305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Now, with JohnGerald's input and Clayton's Germany input:

    From the USA:

    Porgy and Bess *
    The Rake's Progress *
    The Consul
    The Medium
    Amahl and the Night Visitors
    The Crucible
    Satyagraha
    The Death of Klinghoffer
    The Ghosts of Versailles
    Emmeline
    Little Women
    Doctor Atomic -

    From the United Kingdom:

    Dido and Aeneas *
    The Fairy Queen
    Peter Grimes **
    Death in Venice
    Written on Skin *
    The Tempest
    The Minotaur
    The Pirates of Penzance
    Giulio Cesare **
    Rodelinda *
    Ariodante
    Serse
    Hercules
    Theodora
    Billy Budd -
    Alcina *
    Rinaldo
    Orlando
    Tolomeo
    Deidamia

    From France

    Les Troyens *
    La Damnation de Faust
    Roméo et Juliette
    Dialogues des Carmélites *
    Pelléas et Mélisande *
    Les Contes d'Hoffmann *
    Carmen *
    Les Pêcheurs de Perles
    Les Indes Galantes *
    Atys *
    Manon *
    Guillaume Tell ***
    L'Enfant et les sortilèges
    Le Dernier Jour d'un Condamné
    Dardanus
    Médée (Chapentier's)
    Les Fêtes de l'Hymen et de l'Amour
    Pheaton
    Benvenuto Cellini *
    Faust
    Le Jongleur de Notre-Dame
    Robert Le Diable -
    Dinorah
    La Favorite

    From Russia

    Eugene Onegin **
    Boris Godunov **
    Kovanschina
    The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh and the Maiden Fevronya *
    Prince Igor *
    Betrothal in a Monastery
    The Love for Three Oranges
    A Life for the Tsar
    The Fiery Angel
    The Golden Cockerel
    Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District
    The Demon
    Iolanta *
    The Tale of the Tsar Saltan
    War and Peace **

    From Austria

    Lulu *
    Wozzeck * (what the hell, I endorse it too)
    Die Fledermaus
    Die lustige Witwe
    Paride ed Elena *
    Orfeo ed Euridice *
    Don Giovanni ***
    Così fan Tutte **
    Le Nozze di Figaro **
    Idomeneo
    La Clemenza di Tito **
    Die Entführung aus dem Serail *
    Die Zauberflöte **

    From Germany

    Boulevard Solitude
    Die Tote Stadt *
    Die Frau Ohne Schatten
    Der Rosenkavalier *
    Salome *
    Elektra *
    Die Soldaten
    Die Walküre **
    Das Rheingold **
    Gotterdämerung **
    Lohengrin ***
    Tristan und Isolde *
    Tannhäuser *
    Fidelio *
    Der Freischutz
    Euryanthe
    Siegfried **
    Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg **
    Parsifal *
    Orpheus (Telemann)
    Siroe (Hasse)
    Croesus

    From Italy

    La Traviata ***
    Rigoletto **
    Il Trovatore *
    Macbeth
    Don Carlo *
    Simon Boccanegra
    Otello (Verdi's) ***
    La Bohème
    Tosca *
    Il Tabarro
    Gianni Schichi
    Norma *
    I Capuleti e I Montecchi
    Lucia di Lammermoor *
    L'elisir d'amore
    Il Barbiere di Siviglia (Rossini's) *
    Mosè in Egito
    La Cenerentola
    Armida
    Ermione
    L'Italiana in Algeri
    Cavalleria Rusticana
    I Paggliaci
    L'Orfeo *
    La Didonne
    Luce mie traditrice
    Madama Butterfly
    Falstaff
    Ernani *
    Roberto Devereux * (I endorse it too, it's my favorite of the trilogy due to melodic content)
    Anna Bolena *
    Maria Stuarda *
    I Puritani *
    Beatrice di Tenda
    L'incoronazione di Poppea
    Artaserse (Vinci)
    La Verità in cimento
    La Calisto
    Artemisia (Cavalli)
    L'Ormindo
    Griselda (Scarlatti)

    From the Czech Republic

    The Bartered Bride
    Rusalka *
    Jenufa
    Kat'a Kabanova
    From the House of the Dead
    The Cunning Little Vixen

    Others

    Bluebeard's Castle
    Le Grand Macabre
    King Roger
    L'Amour de Loin
    Ainadamar
    Il Guarany
    Maskarade
    El Retablo de Maese Pedro
    Last edited by Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva); April 26th, 2015 at 04:53 PM.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  9. #23
    Senior Member Top Contributor Member Clayton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Berkhamsted, UK
    Posts
    4,260
    Post Thanks / Like
    apologies to the Captain for doing this piecemeal I have a small notepad (hah! you thought I was going to say brain)

    for Italy

    I endorse

    La Traviata
    Il Trovatore
    Otello
    Tosca
    Norma
    Lucia di Lammermoor
    L'Orfeo

    I also would classify as a masterpiece

    Nabucco
    Ernani
    Anna Bolena
    Maria Stuarda
    I Puritani
    Beatrice di Tenda
    L'incoronazione di Poppea
    Artaserse (Vinci)
    La Verità in cimento
    La Calisto
    Artemisia (Cavalli)
    L'Ormindo
    Griselda (Scarlatti)

  10. Thanks Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva) thanked for this post
  11. #24
    Senior Member Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Bloomfield Hills, MI
    Posts
    843
    Post Thanks / Like
    How did I forget I Puritani??? Absolutely -- after all, the "Puritani Quartet" were legendary singers who made a lot of lira on that name.

  12. #25
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    9,305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Post 22 is the latest list, it already contains, through editing, Clayton's and JohnGerald's further input from posts 23 and 24.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  13. #26
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    9,305
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm quite sure when Annie gets to this thread, she will not endorse Simon Boccanegra, right?
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  14. Likes MAuer liked this post
  15. #27
    Senior Member Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Bloomfield Hills, MI
    Posts
    843
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva) View Post
    I'm quite sure when Annie gets to this thread, she will not endorse Simon Boccanegra, right?
    Is there one with bare chested baritones?

    Assets of a different gender, don't ye ken ...

  16. Likes MAuer liked this post
  17. #28
    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Amfortas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,794
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva) View Post
    I like Amfortas' restrained approach to the concept of Masterpiece. My initial list was over-inclusive, which is interesting as it fosters more debates.
    I kept my list relatively short, but don't mean to suggest it's exhaustive. There are plenty of operatic masterpieces I don't know well or fully appreciate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva) View Post
    I guess I recognize Parsifal as a musical masterpiece but will stubbornly not vote for it as an overall masterpiece, since I detest its cloying libretto. I wouldn't go as far as petitioning for taking it out.
    I see a tension between the idea of "masterpiece" and a work "perfect in all regards." Some of the operas I would rate most highly can be faulted in one regard or another. But I suppose these concerns will be sorted out in the voting.

  18. #29
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    9,305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Amfortas View Post
    I kept my list relatively short, but don't mean to suggest it's exhaustive. There are plenty of operatic masterpieces I don't know well or fully appreciate.



    I see a tension between the idea of "masterpiece" and a work "perfect in all regards." Some of the operas I would rate most highly can be faulted in one regard or another. But I suppose these concerns will be sorted out in the voting.
    Right, maybe I was too strict in suggesting that a true masterpiece needs to be perfect in all regards, given that perfection is a very elusive trait and one can arguably say that there is nothing in an art form that is truly 100% perfect.

    Still, we might keep some measure of thinking that for a final Opera Lively list of true masterpieces, only the very very good, somewhat close to perfection works should be included, somehow (but I suspect the final list will be over-inclusive, and I'm at fault for this too since my initial list was so extensive - I don't think some of the operas I listed would truly qualify if we were to follow my own very strict criteria).
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  19. #30
    Senior Member Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Bloomfield Hills, MI
    Posts
    843
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have seen (but cannot recall where) a list of operas by the number of performances each has. I hate to tie the concept of popularity to the term "masterpiece", because the latter may get some support from musical academia. But popularity cannot be ignored, either.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Will The First 3 Masterpieces Ever Become Popular?
    By Xavier35 in forum General Operatic Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: January 31st, 2014, 06:47 PM
  2. Replies: 21
    Last Post: October 29th, 2012, 06:41 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


free html visitor counters
hit counter




Official Media Partners of Opera Carolina

Opera Lively is the Official Media Partner of Opera Carolina

Official Media Partners of NC Opera

Opera Lively is the Official Media Partner of North Carolina Opera

Official Media Partners of Greensboro Opera

Opera Lively is the Official Media Partner of Greensboro Opera

Official Media Partners of The A.J. Fletcher Opera Institute and Piedmont Opera

Opera Lively is the Official Media Partner of The A.J. Fletcher Opera Institute
of the University of North Carolina School of the Arts and Piedmont Opera

Official Media Partners of Asheville Lyric Opera

Opera Lively is the Official Media Partner of Asheville Lyric Opera

Official Media Partners of UNC Opera

Opera Lively is the Official Media Partner of UNC Opera
Dept. of Music, UNC-Chapel Hill College of Arts and Sciences

www.operalively.com

VISIT WWW.OPERALIVELY.COM FOR ALL YOUR OPERA NEEDS