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  1. #496
    Opera Lively Coordinator - Donor Member Top Contributor Member tyroneslothrop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAuer View Post
    Though some folks we know won't complain about La Bellissima's appearance, either!
    I have absolutely no complaints about Anya's appearance! Far from it! Just that she is not going to be mistaken for 13

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  3. #497
    Schigolch
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    I don't read Russian, my friend. In the Spanish translation of Onegin I have, those lines read like "such a young girl". If the original text says 13, then 13 it is.

  4. #498
    Senior Member Veteran Member Aksel's Avatar
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    Should we really expect a Tatyana to look 13? Because then I want all of my Salomes to look 16.

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    Senior Member Top Contributor Member Dark_Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almaviva View Post
    Well, to make a long story short, I won the bet. My friend now wants to get to know other operas, and wants me to invite him anytime there is live opera going on in our region. He said he *must* get to know this outstanding art form.

    Anna, 1x0 for you. Thank you for converting another one!
    Netrebko is great example to get new people exposed to opera, that Salzburg brindisi from Traviata is very well done and visually exciting. We have so many great looking opera stars now with greater emphasis on visual media, hard to choose where to start

    You should send Anna an email or tweet, probably make her day

    Also since friend is making the big bucks he can buy the best tickets and soon trips to MET and bring along his good buddy Alma for free........

  6. #500
    Schigolch
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  7. #501
    Senior Member Veteran Member Aksel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schigolch View Post
    I think that group there is one of my least favourite on all of the Facebook.

  8. #502
    Opera Lively News Coordinator Top Contributor Member MAuer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksel View Post
    Should we really expect a Tatyana to look 13? Because then I want all of my Salomes to look 16.
    Let's not forget our 15 year-old Butterfly.

  9. #503
    Senior Member Veteran Member Aksel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAuer View Post
    Let's not forget our 15 year-old Butterfly.
    Indeed!

    Suspension of disbelief is a key component of opera. Fact is you're not going to get sopranos straight out of conservatory (shouldn't get, at least) singing big roles like Tatyana, Butterfly or (God forbid) Salome. And I think I'd be seriously weirded out if someone actually made a 40 (for example) year old soprano look like a 13 year old girl.

  10. #504
    Staff Writer & Reviewer - Life-time Donor Veteran Member Jephtha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksel View Post
    Indeed!

    Suspension of disbelief is a key component of opera. Fact is you're not going to get sopranos straight out of conservatory (shouldn't get, at least) singing big roles like Tatyana, Butterfly or (God forbid) Salome. And I think I'd be seriously weirded out if someone actually made a 40 (for example) year old soprano look like a 13 year old girl.
    And not only in opera. In decades past(pre-home video), it was the custom for Shakespearean heroines to be portrayed by superannuated yet still active actresses. I remember a production of As You Like It co-starring Celia Johnson as Celia, and she looked like Rosalind's grandmother. Very difficult to suspend my disbelief in that instance!

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  12. #505
    Opera Lively Coordinator - Donor Member Top Contributor Member tyroneslothrop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksel View Post
    Should we really expect a Tatyana to look 13? Because then I want all of my Salomes to look 16.
    I guess my point from my other thread was not that Stoyanova doesn't look 13, but that Holten decided to use this young(-er) ballerina represent Tatyana while Stoyanova would sing on the side. I think that was broken. And the only reason I could think of that he would do that is that Stoyanova is 4x Tatyana's age. Otherwise why not have Stoyanova play Tatyana herself during the entire opera as is normally done?

  13. #506
    Opera Lively Coordinator - Donor Member Top Contributor Member tyroneslothrop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schigolch View Post
    I don't read Russian, my friend. In the Spanish translation of Onegin I have, those lines read like "such a young girl". If the original text says 13, then 13 it is.
    Very odd that the Spanish translator would have translated the very specific "13" into a very nonspecific "such a young girl". Do you suppose it was so as not to alienate modern readers by offending their sensibilities?

    I agree that 13 was probably too young even in the 1820's when the poem was set. But perhaps this was intentional on the part of Pushkin. I thought about your point last night and considered if it might have been simply a convenience of prosody on the part of Pushkin. What his poem says is "...тринадцать лет!" (..trinadtsat' let which means literally, "thirteen years"). If he had instead wanted her to be fifteen years old, it would have been "...пятнадцать лет!" (...pyatnadtsat' let). This would have used the same number of syllables, same accent, same meter--prosodically identical. So I think Pushkin must have been intentional in choosing thirteen as her age. But why? As you say, 13 is and was too young for girls of her station. 15 was considered a marriagable age for women in Rus', but that was the 12th century Russia and not the 18th. Anyways, enough of that. These speculations and ponderings on my part belongs in a thread analyzing Eugene Onegin and not a general one like News!

  14. #507
    Schigolch
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    Well, we do have a thread analyzing Eugene Onegin in our in-depth series!. So you can speculate all that you want there.

    No idea about the Spanish translator's intentions.

  15. #508
    Opera Lively Coordinator - Donor Member Top Contributor Member tyroneslothrop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schigolch View Post
    Well, we do have a thread analyzing Eugene Onegin in our in-depth series!. So you can speculate all that you want there.

    No idea about the Spanish translator's intentions.
    We'll I'd be embarrassed to clutter your nice thread there where you have done such wonderful analysis of the different role singers over Onegin's performance history with my speculative twaddle. But I suppose if a post on Eugene Onegin were to be created there for trivia, then I might add some details from the original poem on which the libretto by the composer and Konstantin Shilovsky is based, since they both tried to follow it fairly faithfully even in its prosody, with only a few notable exceptions. So to the extent that Tchaikovsky intended to be faithful to Pushkin, there are probably a few details and speculations that I can add. Maybe I can help with a trivia post there--but I should study your other opera trivia posts and see what constitutes opera trivia for these threads

  16. #509
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyroneslothrop View Post
    We'll I'd be embarrassed to clutter your nice thread there where you have done such wonderful analysis of the different role singers over Onegin's performance history with my speculative twaddle. But I suppose if a post on Eugene Onegin were to be created there for trivia, then I might add some details from the original poem on which the libretto by the composer and Konstantin Shilovsky is based, since they both tried to follow it fairly faithfully even in its prosody, with only a few notable exceptions. So to the extent that Tchaikovsky intended to be faithful to Pushkin, there are probably a few details and speculations that I can add. Maybe I can help with a trivia post there--but I should study your other opera trivia posts and see what constitutes opera trivia for these threads
    In our in-depths the trivia is placed under Around the Opera. In that area only Schigolch and I can post, but if you send me your contribution, I'll insert it there (and credit you as the person who authored it).
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  17. #510
    Opera Lively Media Consultant Top Contributor Member Ann Lander (sospiro)'s Avatar
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    The inaugural International Opera Awards took place last night in London. Jonas Kaufmann came away with two gongs & has been dubbed an honorary Londoner.
    "The world calls them its singers and poets and artists and storytellers; but they are just people who have never forgotten the way to fairyland."
    Lucy Maud Montgomery

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