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  1. #571
    Senior Member Top Contributor Member Dark_Angel's Avatar
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    Wonder what the director had in mind for the act 2 song contest since the Venusberg original subject was so radically changed, Tannhauser can sing about the virtues of torture and sadistic killing......lovely


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  3. #572
    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almaviva View Post
    Oh, come on. Venusberg = hedonism, lust, eroticism
    This production = a family being shaved and executed, gas chambers. Yeah, right. Very erotic. Almost the same thing. Gas chambers are a well known symbolism for lovemaking.
    You and I may not find anything erotic in domination, violation, sadism, torture, even murder. From all accounts, though, some people do. And I believe such perverse underlying impulses are part of the continuing appeal of the Nazi mystique even to this day.

    Again, I have no way of knowing how successfully any of this played out in the recent Tannhauser production--which after all is the real topic of this discussion.

  4. #573
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amfortas View Post
    You and I may not find anything erotic in domination, violation, sadism, torture, even murder. From all accounts, though, some people do. And I believe such perverse underlying impulses are part of the continuing appeal of the Nazi mystique even to this day.

    Again, I have no way of knowing how successfully any of this played out in the recent Tannhauser production--which after all is the real topic of this discussion.
    You know, that this link between Nazi imagery of domination and some forms of twisted sexuality can be made and has been made, I'm not disputing. But it's usually not like this. What I called a stretch is the notion that a family being shaved and executed and gas chambers, was after all appropriate for the Venusberg scene because of some link between Nazis and eroticism that has been made in other ways and in other contexts. Why is it a stretch? Because not even in those occasions when this link was made, the imagery was one of using gas chambers. Please let me know in what film, play, etc., gas chambers have been used as a metaphor or symbolism for eroticism. No such thing, right? Thus, a stretch. There is nothing more un-sexy than gas chambers, and I fail to see how this could have been used to evoke eroticism. So, my point is, in defense of the Regie concept, you're stretching the analogy too far.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  5. #574
    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Amfortas's Avatar
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    And to be fair, I don't even know if the director had my line of thinking in mind in the first place. Perhaps he was going for something entirely different. Clearly, it didn't work for a lot of people--both those in attendance and those reading capsule reviews. Not having seen the production myself, though, I can only speculate how I might have reacted to it.

  6. #575
    Opera Lively Coordinator - Donor Member Top Contributor Member tyroneslothrop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almaviva View Post
    More updates - it seems like the company has decided for good to only continue the show as a concert piece, not just eliminate the controversial parts as the spokeswoman had said.
    I hope that as a concert piece, the performers don't get to wear their costumes.

    I was under the impression that it's been against the law in Germany since the early 50's to glorify the Third Reich or display any of various symbols? How could they even get this production past the German authorities/censors?!?!

  7. #576
    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyroneslothrop View Post
    I was under the impression that it's been against the law in Germany since the early 50's to glorify the Third Reich or display any of various symbols? How could they even get this production past the German authorities/censors?!?!
    They must try to take context into account somehow. Herheim's Bayreuth Parsifal ended Act II with very prominent swastika banners. But they came crashing down with Klingsor's defeat, so maybe that made them acceptable to censors.

  8. #577
    Opera Lively News Coordinator Top Contributor Member MAuer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyroneslothrop View Post
    I hope that as a concert piece, the performers don't get to wear their costumes.

    I was under the impression that it's been against the law in Germany since the early 50's to glorify the Third Reich or display any of various symbols? How could they even get this production past the German authorities/censors?!?!
    I'm assuming the intent here was to depict the horrors of the Third Reich, not glorify it. As misguided as I think Kosminski was, the man is no neo-Nazi.

  9. #578
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
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    Peter Gelb still endorses Lepage's Machine, will bring it back although not as early as initially planned:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/ar...ine.html?_r=1&
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

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  11. #579
    Schigolch
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    Staging of Stockhausen's helicopter string quartet scores key prize:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013...-quartet-prize

  12. #580
    Schigolch
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    With Wheelchair and Lively Baton, Levine Commands Carnegie Hall

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/20/ar...all.html?_r=3&

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  14. #581
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
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    The Met disbands its ballet corps

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/ar...let-corps.html
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  15. #582
    Opera Lively News Coordinator Top Contributor Member MAuer's Avatar
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    Mezzo Marie-Nicole Lemieux mentioned in an interview that she'll be singing Azucena at the 2014 Salzburg Festival in a production of Il Trovatore that includes Jonas Kaufmann (Manrico), Anna Netrebko (Leonora), and Plácido Domingo as the Conte di Luna.

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  17. #583
    Senior Member Top Contributor Member Dark_Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAuer View Post
    Mezzo Marie-Nicole Lemieux mentioned in an interview that she'll be singing Azucena at the 2014 Salzburg Festival in a production of Il Trovatore that includes Jonas Kaufmann (Manrico), Anna Netrebko (Leonora), and Plácido Domingo as the Conte di Luna.
    Sounds like fabulous superstar dream cast, we need blu ray release for this!

    We also need a Netrebko Lady MacBeth before she loses her touch.......keep Kaufmann as MacBeth

  18. #584
    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Soave_Fanciulla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Angel View Post
    Sounds like fabulous superstar dream cast, we need blu ray release for this!
    I'd like it better if Domingo was out of the picture. He just won't sound right, especially pitched up against Kaufmann, and poor old Manrico and Luna's mother would also have a 30 year gap between her two kids which I think is a bit harsh.
    Natalie

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  20. #585
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soave_Fanciulla View Post
    I'd like it better if Domingo was out of the picture. He just won't sound right, especially pitched up against Kaufmann, and poor old Manrico and Luna's mother would also have a 30 year gap between her two kids which I think is a bit harsh.
    I actually am less convinced of Domingo's failures at his advanced age. I heard a radio broadcast of La Traviata at the Met when he was Papa Germont and was actually sorry for him, he didn't sound right. Then I saw the same show live, and was *very* impressed with Domingo. I think the old guy still got it. There is something to be said about watching live a living legend, and regardless of an aging voice, he is still impressive, and very experienced of course, so he does know how to compensate for his shortcomings.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

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