Thread: Opera Small Talk

          
   
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  1. #556
    Opera Lively Site Owner / Administrator / Chief Editor Top Contributor Member Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tardis View Post
    Does anyone know of a more recent video/DVD/VHS of the Polish opera Straszny dwor/The Haunted Manor?
    Amazon only has the audio version.
    My interest was piqued when I read about it from Almaviva's interview with Piotr Beczala from his book. http://operalively.com/forums/conten...The-Interviews

    All I could find on YT was the 1936 version.
    There are some more recent clips on YT but I don't think there is a DVD.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3cyRFrE720

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BEi1Q8QNbY
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

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  3. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tardis View Post
    Does anyone know of a more recent video/DVD/VHS of the Polish opera Straszny dwor/The Haunted Manor?
    Amazon only has the audio version.
    My interest was piqued when I read about it from Almaviva's interview with Piotr Beczala from his book. http://operalively.com/forums/conten...The-Interviews

    All I could find on YT was the 1936 version.
    The 1936 version is not the opera itself, it's movie version of the story with some of it's numbers included. You have lots of spoken scenes in that movie, in opera you have accompanied recitatives with orchestra and no speech.

    Straszny Dwór is less represented than Halka and the only visual recording I can think of is this: http://www.operapassion.com/dvd485.html

    Two fragments can be seen on YouTube:





    The cast is good and includes eminent baritone geezer, Andrzej Hiolski. The conductor, Robert Satanowski, has done more important Moniuszko recordings (mostly audio) than any other conductor.

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  5. #558
    Senior Member Involved Member Tardis's Avatar
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    Ugh, that's like interrupting Voi Che Sapete because Cherubino is singing a song.
    I dunno, it felt a little bit distracting to put those interjections there in the middle of that beautiful music and aria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aksel View Post
    In the case of Chi il bel sogno di Doretta, it's the fact that Magda is actually singing a song, and so the other characters need to say how beautiful it is. Just in case we didn't notice.

  6. #559
    Senior Member Veteran Member Aksel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tardis View Post
    Ugh, that's like interrupting Voi Che Sapete because Cherubino is singing a song.
    I dunno, it felt a little bit distracting to put those interjections there in the middle of that beautiful music and aria.
    It's Puccini, not Mozart. Also, I think the context in which the songs are set are wildly different. Voi che sapete is more "CountessyouhaevtolistentomebecauseIhavewrittenaso ngtoyouandIloveyoumorethananythingonearth!", whereas Chi il bel sogno is more "I'm going to sing a song now, everybody! You'd better love me!".

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  8. #560
    Staff Writer & Reviewer - Life-time Donor Veteran Member Jephtha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tardis View Post
    Ugh, that's like interrupting Voi Che Sapete because Cherubino is singing a song.
    I dunno, it felt a little bit distracting to put those interjections there in the middle of that beautiful music and aria.
    The 'aria con pertichini' was a standard item in eighteenth-century opera buffa. One example is Count Robinson's 'Son lunatico bilioso' in Act II of Cimarosa's Il matrimonio segreto, in which he is repeatedly interrupted by Elisetta. Another is Elvira's entrance aria in Don Giovanni, 'Ah, chi mi dice mai', in which the eavesdropping master and servant comment sympathetically (the Don) and sarcastically (Leporello) on the lady's evident agitation. So in point of fact, da Ponte would have been perfectly correct in interjecting 'pertichini' from Susanna and Rosina into 'Voi che sapete', and the audience at the premiere would not have batted an eyelash. Having said that, however, I do agree that the aesthetic effect is rather rebarbative, at least to our twenty-first century taste, which is necessarily far removed from that of two hundred-odd years ago.

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  10. #561
    Senior Member Involved Member Tardis's Avatar
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    Great answers from both Aksel and Jephtha.

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  12. #562
    Senior Member Veteran Member Aksel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jephtha View Post
    The 'aria con pertichini' was a standard item in eighteenth-century opera buffa. One example is Count Robinson's 'Son lunatico bilioso' in Act II of Cimarosa's Il matrimonio segreto, in which he is repeatedly interrupted by Elisetta. Another is Elvira's entrance aria in Don Giovanni, 'Ah, chi mi dice mai', in which the eavesdropping master and servant comment sympathetically (the Don) and sarcastically (Leporello) on the lady's evident agitation. So in point of fact, da Ponte would have been perfectly correct in interjecting 'pertichini' from Susanna and Rosina into 'Voi che sapete', and the audience at the premiere would not have batted an eyelash. Having said that, however, I do agree that the aesthetic effect is rather rebarbative, at least to our twenty-first century taste, which is necessarily far removed from that of two hundred-odd years ago.
    I don't really agree. Voi che sapete is a song that Cherubino sings, quite different from Elvira's entrance aria in DG. It's a performance inside the performance.
    DG and Leporello comment on Elvira's state of mind, and had it been a play, she would not have been singing. Cherubino would not (does he sing in the original Beaumarchais, do you know?). And I don't think the sort of appraisal that is used in the Puccini would be accepted in the Mozart; it doesn't really add anything (kind of).

  13. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksel View Post
    Cherubino would not (does he sing in the original Beaumarchais, do you know?)
    In his Figaro plays, if I'm not mistaken, the singing or lack of it was matter of performance. But in original thought most of song-including parts were with singing.

  14. #564
    Staff Writer & Reviewer - Life-time Donor Veteran Member Jephtha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksel View Post
    I don't really agree. Voi che sapete is a song that Cherubino sings, quite different from Elvira's entrance aria in DG. It's a performance inside the performance.
    DG and Leporello comment on Elvira's state of mind, and had it been a play, she would not have been singing. Cherubino would not (does he sing in the original Beaumarchais, do you know?). And I don't think the sort of appraisal that is used in the Puccini would be accepted in the Mozart; it doesn't really add anything (kind of).
    Actually, I almost agree with you on this, Aksel. However, you are looking at these pieces from the musico-dramatic viewpoint, and I was merely pointing out that the (to us) oddity of having an aria interrupted by another character was not at all odd to earlier opera audiences. Examples abound in the works of Vivaldi, Handel and Monteverdi, to name only a few. But your point about the unsuitability of other characters commenting on a formal performance is well taken.

  15. #565
    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Soave_Fanciulla's Avatar
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    The most annoying instance to my ears of interruption - or rather grumbling commentary - is the damn Sagrestano moaning on in the background during Recondita Armonia. One day I'm going to jump up on stage and sticky tape his mouth shut.
    Natalie

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    Staff Writer & Reviewer - Life-time Donor Veteran Member Jephtha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soave_Fanciulla View Post
    The most annoying instance to my ears of interruption - or rather grumbling commentary - is the damn Sagrestano moaning on in the background during Recondita Armonia. One day I'm going to jump up on stage and sticky tape his mouth shut.
    Agreed; this instance is vile! How about Alcindoro's little remarks during Musetta's waltz? Actually, I rather enjoy those, especially if the soprano takes the opportunity to sing slightly louder in reaction, perhaps through gritted teeth(at least for a couple of notes)and with a sidelong glance of fury.

  17. #567
    Opera Lively Media Consultant Top Contributor Member Ann Lander (sospiro)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soave_Fanciulla View Post
    The most annoying instance to my ears of interruption - or rather grumbling commentary - is the damn Sagrestano moaning on in the background during Recondita Armonia. One day I'm going to jump up on stage and sticky tape his mouth shut.
    *note to self* if you ever see Tosca with Nat, be ready to pin her down before Jonas starts Recondita Armonia
    "The world calls them its singers and poets and artists and storytellers; but they are just people who have never forgotten the way to fairyland."
    Lucy Maud Montgomery

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  19. #568
    Senior Member Involved Member Tardis's Avatar
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    Me too. I never understood why that beautiful aria gets interrupted.

  20. #569
    Opera Lively Moderator Top Contributor Member Amfortas's Avatar
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    Perhaps Puccini revives the old 'aria con pertichini' device for more up-to-date reasons. Tosca stems in part from the verismo movement, and interrupting a formal aria with another character's patter is certainly one way to create a more realistic, "slice of life" effect.

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  22. #570
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    Don Giovanni ossia Refused Cheeseburger:


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