What opera have you been listening to, lately?

[Florestan]

Great recording I just got in yesterday's mail. My first Eugene on CD:

[MAuer]

Conductor/orchestra: Lamberto Gardelli; ORF (Austrian Broadcasting) Symphony Orchestra and Chorus
Cast: Katia Ricciarelli, José Carreras, Matteo Manuguerra, Nicola Ghiuselev, Hannes Lichtenberger, Dimitri Kavrakos, Jonathan Summers, Franz Handlos, Ann Murray

Verdi’s music and a terrific cast go a long way to compensate for Salvatore Cammarana’s not especially inspiring libretto. (This is the same individual responsible for the libretto to Il Trovatore.) Like a number of 19th century librettists, Cammarana wasn’t about to let historical fact get in the way of a good story, and has the hero Arrigo slay the Holy Roman Emperor Friedrich Barbarossa at the Battle of Legnano. The text is closely tied to the mid-century struggle for Italian independence, and the characters spend most of their time in a lot of patriotic posturing. There is a stereotypical love triangle between Arrigo, his best pal Rolando, and Rolando’s wife Lida, who was romantically involved with Arrigo earlier but, believing him to have been killed in battle, married Rolando at the behest of her dying father. Rossini’s Guillaume Tell also deals with a populace battling an oppressive foreign power, and yet the figures seem to have more depth to them than do the characters in La Battaglia di Legnano. I find myself caring much more about the former. Still, Verdi’s music is fabulous, and it’s a pleasure to listen to Carreras, Ricciarelli, and Manuguerra.

[Hoffmann]

House-bound again for a few days during another Arctic blast. I hadn't listened to this in ages and, being a fan of Edita Gruberova, wanted to hear her and Alfredo Kraus' version of Lucia (1983).

Competent, but not really compelling - hard to beat Callas and Sills on this one, I think.

[Florestan]

currently listening to this. Very good!

[Florestan]

Earlier this morning I listened to this, which is about 20% shorter than my other sets for this opera.



I see that the tracks in the latter half of Act III don't seem to match up and an eight-minute ballet is missing. Sound quality is not the greatest either. But a nice set to have, especially at the price I paid ($3.19).

Then I read the liner notes and find out that this is a revised version. From the booklet,

For a performance in Parma in 1769, Gluck took his search for a rigid structure to even greater lengths. He combined the original three acts into one, thus further intensifying the drama of the piece. This was the basis for a performance by the Dutch Opera Foundation in 1975 [presumably this recording is of it], which took dramatic succinctness to even greater extremes. This version ended with Eurydice's "second death", in which the "lieto fino" was replaced by a recapitulation of the funeral music sung by the chorus to mourn Orpheus's deceased wife at the beginning of the opera.

This is evident in the last three track titles (which are given in original language and English in the booklet):

Orfeo: "Alas! What have I come to?"

Orfeo: "What shall I do without Eurydice?"

Chorus: "Ah, if around this tomb"
Google translates this last track as: "ah! You enter this ugly urn"

[Ann Lander (sospiro)]

Earlier this morning I listened to this, which is about 20% shorter than my other sets for this opera.



I see that the tracks in the latter half of Act III don't seem to match up and an eight-minute ballet is missing. Sound quality is not the greatest either. But a nice set to have, especially at the price I paid ($3.19).

Then I read the liner notes and find out that this is a revised version. From the booklet,



This is evident in the last three track titles:

Orfeo: "Alas! What have I come to?"

Orfeo: "What shall I do without Eurydice?"

Chorus: "Ah, if around this tomb"
Google translates this last track as: "ah! You enter this ugly urn"

Chorus: "Ah, if around this tomb"
Google translates this last track as: "ah! You enter this ugly urn"

[Florestan]

[Florestan]

Walkure from this set:

[Florestan]

I finally figured out what is wrong with all these sung-in-English operas. The music and singing can be wonderful, and so it is here, but the bare fact is that English is just not a beautiful sounding language. It is as simple as that. Oh, the translation can further damage it but mainly I think it is the language. German, Italian, Russian, French all sound beautiful, but what is it about English?

EDIT: On second listen I am appreciating that I can make out most of the words and am actually following better than with the DVD since the DVD does usually have the entire libretto reproduced in the subtitles.

[MAuer]

Could part of the problem be that native English speakers simply aren't accustomed to hearing operas sung in this language? There just aren't that many works in the mainstream repertoire that have original librettos in English. (Modern operas are a different story.) One of the few -- and it's not really mainstream -- is Weber's Oberon. To my ears, it sounds okay -- better, in fact, than the German translation that's often used. ('Course, it doesn't hurt that the recording I own has der Jonas in the role of Sir Huon.)

[Florestan]

[QUOTE=MAuer;63342]Could part of the problem be that native English speakers simply aren't accustomed to hearing operas sung in this language? There just aren't that many works in the mainstream repertoire that have original librettos in English. (Modern operas are a different story.) One of the few -- and it's not really mainstream -- is Weber's Oberon. To my ears, it sounds okay -- better, in fact, than the German translation that's often used. ('Course, it doesn't hurt that the recording I own has der Jonas in the role of Sir Huon.)

That example is not working for me in that I am not familiar with Oberon. However, it may be that the English sounds unmusical because of the translation. I need to listen to one of my operas that was originally written in English to see if they sound better. I have Britten's Gloriana and Balfe's Bohemian Girl.

[Luiz Gazzola (Almaviva)]

[QUOTE=Florestan;63343]

Could part of the problem be that native English speakers simply aren't accustomed to hearing operas sung in this language? There just aren't that many works in the mainstream repertoire that have original librettos in English. (Modern operas are a different story.) One of the few -- and it's not really mainstream -- is Weber's Oberon. To my ears, it sounds okay -- better, in fact, than the German translation that's often used. ('Course, it doesn't hurt that the recording I own has der Jonas in the role of Sir Huon.)


That example is not working for me in that I am not familiar with Oberon. However, it may be that the English sounds unmusical because of the translation. I need to listen to one of my operas that was originally written in English to see if they sound better. I have Britten's Gloriana and Balfe's Bohemian Girl.

Not counting truly contemporary works, I think the top three operas in English are Peter Grimes, The Rake's Progress, and Porgy and Bess. Oh, we can add Dido and Aeneas to them. All four sound fine to me. I don't think the problems is with the English language. Think of all the beautiful songs in American and British musicals like Cats, Les Miserables, etc., including the classical ones like Showboat. The English language sounds just fine in these works.

The problem is that when you translate, you bring in different phonemes, different stresses on syllables, and different word rhythm, and it all goes against what the composer initially aimed for. Remember, these are often operas that set to music an existing text so the composer takes into account the words, when he/she writes the music for them. You change the words, you change the whole structure.

I like to turn it the other way around to give an example so that people get it more clearly. Think of an opera initially composed in English, like Porgy and Bess, and its iconic aria "Summertime."

Think of the initial melody for the opening line, the first time the word appears:

SUMMMeerrrTIIIIIIIIMe,,,

Imagine if this thing is translated into French.

Then it would be

Étéééééééééééééééééééé

Totally different, and the high-low-high-low melodic effect is completely ruined.

That's why we should never sing opera in translation.

I'm utterly and completely against the practice.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule and some of these operas in translation sound good, when someone manages to work on the lines very sharply (the person needs to have a lot of talent to do that, not only poetic gift but also musical understanding) and the final result is decent, or sometimes composers themselves do a version of their operas in a different language and adapt the score a little. Fine. Or maybe some great singers manage to work around the hiccups and still sing the new libretto beautifully.

But in my opinion, the majority of time, opera in translation is a bad, bad idea. We really shouldn't mess with these masterpieces.

[Florestan]

Now I am trying two originally composed for English language. I like both of these. The stories are wonderful. There is much great singing. But overall they do not keep my interest musically like Italian, German, and Russian opera do. May have to give Dido and Aeneas a try.

[Hoffmann]

Think of an opera initially composed in English, like Porgy and Bess, and its iconic aria "Summertime."

Ella Fitzgerald sang a wonderful "Summertime", but I have to admit that Janis Joplin is the one who ruined it for me being sung by anyone else!

I'd have posted a clip, but fear I might have ended up bounced from OL!

[Florestan]

But in my opinion, the majority of time, opera in translation is a bad, bad idea. We really shouldn't mess with these masterpieces.

I think you are right, yet I have this compulsion towards these sung-in-English sets and I cannot say for sure why. Also, Wagner did want his Ring sung in the native language of the listeners. We see from Goodall that the results are mixed, but that is only a single production.